lets hope the judging and refereeing this time is decent....ie Muay Thai criteria and rules and not some terrible kickboxing/sanda nonsense...

Novice 3x2 what exactly is this? no elbows? padding? knees to face?

Amateur is clear as is pro

I am an instructor

in the UK we have novice class as basically thai scoring but the participants wear14/16oz gloves and shinpads...thats it

body armour only for Amateur - along with elbow pads - but full rules and full weapons - anyway most dont like this as headguards dont protect you - in fact they slip around and prove more of a danger than a help and body armour restricts movement anyway....

we then have

A Class which is muay thai as per stadiums
B class which is no elbows to the face (knees allowed) 5x2 mins
C Class which is no elbows or knees to face 5x1.5 mins

the above is no padding just 8oz gloves for under 70kg and 10oz for over 70kg

all are scored under proper muay thai criteria ie effect as per judgind in thai stadiums...

seeing as AMAS dont answer emails and generally here seem to be run by people with no actual or very limited muay thai experience - real muay thai that is - thats why i asked

may i ask how are fighters group into the novice, amateur and professional category into competition sanctioned by AMAS? I seen so many of my peers who had fought here under the novice cateogry and is still fighting in the novice category and these are people who had actually went to thailand to fight professionally but they seems to be forever fighting in the novice category in Singapore. and the names in the local professional fights seem to be always the same usual people. pardon me if i am wrong.

this rarely happens back home as all the gym owners talk and the instructors want fair matchmaking. Here in Singapore many peoples egos and the fear of seeing students lose etc makes it common place. losing actually teaches you more than winning easy fights. Anyone who fights muay thai has to accept that losing happens to EVERYONE....

AMAS to be fair cant police it unless they deman passport/id for each fighter... and keep a record....

you need the FULL names of each fighter - not just 'John' from BXK/ASF or whatever

also coach's should be honest...i will always ask for experience and its usually like this

interclubs (i.e no contest) novice (i.e padded) and then 'fights' i.e no protection regardless and this encompass's any full contact sport so Boxing/Thai/k1/MMA as any experience is ring experience

to be honest if a coach lies to me i would confront them if its a clear mismatch as he/she is not only cheating but trying to screw me , my students and his own and this can be dangerous.... anyone who does this is a scum bag and i would personally want to fight the coach myself for trying to effectively abuse my students

Novice class should be only open to those who have never fought without padding.....
unless the other guys knows your full record and is happy to take the fight

name and shame those who have - as these guys are a danger to ALL other guys stepping into the ring for the first time

Amateur however only means ruleset...at the Amateur games i.e IFMA/Sport Accord the guys competing all have loads of fight experience - in fact the only stipulation is you cant be a current World Title holder from WMC i think.... the thais used to send only guys who were outside the top 10 rankings but recently changed this as other countries i.e Belarus sent there best guys like Kotsur and Kulebing etc etc

so who are the guys...names and the gyms - i am very interested... its easy enough to then check as most gyms like the Phuket ones all post the names and videos of the guys fighting for them

Would these Novice bouts be counted in their fight records, surely they would be regarded as smoker fights. The UK classification makes a lot more sense, I really cant see the point of fighting with the body armour on. It ends up being more like tae kwon do and I am not sure how it will help them transition into Full Muay Thai Rules.

But then again, I am glad there at least putting something like this on.

if there is a winner / loser its a bout....dress it up anyway you care.... its only not included if its an interclub/smoker which means you spar at a sensible level...no KOs etc and its declared a draw (not a points draw) but a no win no lose bout which everyone is aware of before... you can then not market this as a FIGHT as its not....as a fight has a winner/loser....and allows stoppages...

however its true Singapore NEEDS more events like this...but lets not do the usual Singaporean Martial Arts gym and start telling lies and fantastic tales to get students... just be honest and let fighters develop....

Sport Accord has shins and elbow pads but no body armour.... this to me is what 'amateur' rules are.... full range of techniques but a little extra protection to prevent cuts... but then elbows only score if they drop and damage (cut) your opponent - so having pads on them means you cant do the above therefore no point throwing an elbow!!

on a side note i am glad there are 2 big lads having a go.... be happy to fight either one at somepoint down the road

hopefully the event is fully recorded as I want to be able to watch and review the judging and scoring.....

Yay i will be going haven't watched fights for like 2 years...

I want to go but am unlikely to have the whole day... What do you guys reckon to be a good time to be there? Towards the tail end where the professional fights are held?

Also, the poster says 12pm but the post says 10am?

I could'nt have said it any better.There's a ton of mismatches in the local fightscene.Everyone in the industry wants to make their fighters look like a badass at all cost.They seem to be really proud of being the toughest dog in the backyard.To make things worse,It's not easy to gain entry to most of these events to compete.You've to go through the gyms filled with big headed wannabe tough guys whose had only a few pro fights in thailand but walks around befitting of a lumpini champ.Over here,it is not best guy that gets to compete but the most submissive dog.They are artificially limiting the competitiveness of the fight scene.Among all combat sports here,the local boxers has got the most talent and competitive drive.This coming from someone whose been trying to make it through the bullshit for all his life.

i went to watch the fights today. it was horrible for most of the novice fights, dudes all fighting like they are brawling and i really dont understand a particular guy who go into the 1st round taunting his opponent and later losing gas and fight like he just had 10 shots of vodka. i seriously think that is a serious case of embarrassment. are they all muay thai "fighters" and back alley brawler?

I saw several good fights today. Kudos to the organisers. I hope for more such events.

Saw quite a few good fights indeed... wonder about some of the novices indeed... Do the gyms let anyone go if they want to? Some of these guys do not look like they are ready to have a go this way at all...

my sentiment exactly. no doubt they are novice but still if just cause they are novice they can fight this way then what is the use of learning Muay Thai when anyone can go up the ring and fight as a novice by fighting like a street fight. I must say there are some good efforts though.

Exactly, sometimes when sparring, the guy I am sparring with is like a brawler or should I say back alley fighter , what is the point of sparring if you are out to kill the person ? It is wrong ! Sparring is about getting the feel of techniques , movement etc. don't understand why some people take sparring as a fight to kill people

Hmmmn... I must say that I stayed around to watch almost all the matches but did not really see anyone acting as if they were trying to kill the other... There were some obvious mismatches in terms of skill levels and experience amongst the 'novice' and that led me to wonder how a gym decides if one of their fighters is a novice or he should be an amateur.

Most of the better players tend to show some restraint when fighting weaker opponents, that is quite deserving our our respect...

with respect once you step into a ring your job is to beat the other guy - its not sparring if there is a winner and a loser - its called a fight so you do what is required. the less experienced guys will always look worse as once you get in the ring the adrenaline kicks in, cardio goes and the whole experience flash's by. Its all about getting the ring time so you remain calm. This is what the fight scene needs...more fights like this and with such a small scene then 'mismatches' are possible but now the community has seen what 20 odd fighters then it makes matchmaking for the next one easier...

any youtube or videos of the fights anywhere as was away in Thailand so missed the event

oh and full results please if possible...

I managed to come down and see a few fights. Great to see some live muay thai in Singapore, so for that have to give thanks to the organisers. But they do need to look at the matchmaking and as previously stated thats difficult unless you have a few of these events to understand the standard and skill levels of the fighters. But I did hear that some of these guys had fought in Thailand before, so how they can compete as a novice I have no idea.
To me its down to the coaches from the gyms being honest and putting their guys up with someone of relative experience. What use is it if you have fought in Thailand getting in the ring with a guy who has just started training and then kicking the shit out of them. What do you get out of it?
Maybe I am too old skool but I want to fight guys who are tough, I would want a challenge and to know I fought one tough guy. I want to be in a war not just beat up on some kid.
It makes the fighters better and the fights better to watch!

The event last for far too long. I cheered until I almost lost my voice that day.

If according to timing I heard... started at 10am and ended at 7pm... it's really crazy! by 5pm i was falling asleep from exhaustion.. pity i only watched 1 semi pro fight (supporting James from ASfitness!) and didn't manage to stay and finish watching the other pro fights....

Much rather if people held more regular mini tournaments, for example 3 hours tournament once a month? With less fight cards each tournament...

you learn far more losing to a better fighter than smashing a novice... as mentioned above and a word of warning to any gym around - I will always want a fair match for my students..fair doesnt mean i want a guaranteed win....i mean fair as in skillset.... if someone sandbags and trys to match someone with 'A' Class ie Pro Muay thai experience vs a total novice then the coach best be ready to climb straight in and do 5 rounds with me...

some guys have natural ability but its so obvious and a cheating - pointless excercise to try and just get wins bashing beginners up - its actually bullying and not much different to assault in my book...

and re too long exactly...have the pro fights on with amateur...

the novice fights shouldnt be on but rather on smaller more regular shows.... once a month or every 2 months.... level will increase very quickly and matchmaking is much fairer and transparent

id suggest full passport names too not just 'John from FWA' or "Tony BXG' full names means less cheating....

does anyone have results? and also which ones were the big mismatches

I only remember several results (winners name in bold):

Amateur Fight - Male 4x2x1
Welterweight - >63.5kg to <67kg
33 Dilip Stephens (SMU) vs Edward Basil Teo (Fight G) Won by TKO - Nose bleed

Pro Fight - Male 5x3x2
Lightwelterweight - >60kg to <63.5kg
35 Spencer Tay ming hui (Chowraiooi) vs Chai Kai Quan (BXG) Won by TKO - elbow strikes
36 James Liu (ASF) vs Koh Ian Gerard (BXG) Won by Decision

I found some of the fight videos uploaded by BXG at http://www.youtube.com/user/bxgfitness

nose bleed? thats not a stoppage/TKO unless the fighter decides to quit...

I saw some YouTube of one of the pro fights.... who was the referee as he was poor

in muay thai a kick to the groin is legal.....unless it is and intentional staight knee...you wear a cup - in thai boxing there is no '5 mins' for a groin strike...you carry on (as your metal cup protects you) - so why the ref gave the guy time and sent the other guy to the corner is beyond me...

but i guess with these WMC pay and do a one day course and be a 'certified' trainer its bound to happen..

It is if his Mum's the ref :hysterical:

what next, sore toe, bit of a bruise on the leg...

it wasnt a novice fight either - amateur its points, TKO or KO - imagine your record 1w via nosebleed stoppage...hahahahahahahahaahahahahaah

so who was the Referee?

I dont know if its just their lack of experience reffing as this is the first event for a couple of years or there scared of any major injuries. or maybe it was just a case of the guy was out of his depth and was going to get more seriously hurt. But it was very odd.

I also hear that there are going to be events in Oct & Nov, so it looks like the scene maybe picking up. With these new gyms like Top Gym, JFC, Onyx & Chowaraiio putting out fighters and the old brigade FWA, BXG & Fight G.

oh really if only the AMAS or Hilltop would ever reply to my mails

I saw the match... If I recalled, the coach threw in the towel... The guy appeared to be a little unsteady from losing blood from the nose bleed...

Write an open letter and publish it...

in muay thai a corner CAN NOT throw the towel in

the rules are that a fighter can ONLY be disqualified by the referee for not fighting, counted out KO/TKO or retire in between rounds in his corner NOT during the match

again poor understanding of the rules of Muay Thai....

Try their Facebook page:

its under AMAS

Rules from Lumpini Stadium / Boxing Assoc of Thailand - just as reference in case the referee from SMU is reading

9.2 The boxer seconds will not give up the fight for the contestant by throwing sponge or towel into the ring.

Foul
19.8 Kneeing the protector purposely, i.e. catch the neck & kneeing the protector, kneeing the protector or throwing knee at the protector * NOT Kicking - which is pefectly legal to kick i.e inside leg kick or teep to the groin *

with love from me....

it was a Muay Thai event...so whether its in the village hall or a stadium the rules of muay thai are the same else it isnt muay thai.. It was officiated by the AMAS who are WMC certified etc etc... so its a moot point as to the size or location - if you fight muay thai then you also fight under the rules... this just highlights the fact that the AMAS / officials dont understand the rules - the same rules are used in Lumpini as they are in the whole of thailand, australia, england, ireland, spain, usa, france, russia etc - anyone doing muay thai fights under the same rules - i.e the THAI rules as its Muay Thai

if you play a football game wether its for your university or for Man Utd the referee uses the same rules

also the doctor CAN NOT stop a fight - ONLY a referee can..... he can take the doctors advise and if he cant spot an injury he should not be referee-ing. Its his job to protect the fighters.. Singapore has a lot of keen guys and skilled talent but it is let down by the so called coaches and officials who shouldnt be calling what they teach Muay Thai.....

why does an event need AMAS approval if its not using Muay Thai rules and scoring criteria - as if you arent using the correct scoring then you are not doing Muay Thai.....

I am all for more of these events and I understand more will happen - but at least let the fighters compete properly or just call it a kickboxing tournament....

if you compete in a fight sport then you have to expect to be in a fight and you also rely on the referee to be up to scratch...

I speak my mind which clearly will upset some who have been misled by instructors here who teaching nothing more than kickboixng and not muay thai ..... an association that does little to support its members and the poor students who show heart and commitment in training who are being misled.

the big plus is that this event even took place...and so lets hope this is the start of re-education and education.

I have been to a number of gyms and its shocking that most coaches dont even know how to score and what scores yet claim they have a WMC Instructor certificate and also are an AMAS authorised instructor...

if I was FIFA registered and also Singapore Football Federation coach then I would be expected to know how to play the game, understand the rules, how to score and what is and isnt a foul..... it matters not on the venue and whether you have 50 people watching or 50,000

I want the sport to grow here and am trying to help it do so.... but it needs people to accept that things need to change and work together - and not be afraid of criticsm

PS I was not discrediting either fighter as I respect each and every person who gets in the ring

go for it.... let me know which points on the rules you think I am wrong on...

ill bet you 10,000 SGD that none of my points on the rules of muay thai are wrong

10,000 per point I am wrong on

this I know from 10yrs plus in the sport and being qualified - not a piece of paper from Stephen Fox for a 1 day course either...

all friendly of course

but I know the rules inside out ...... :wave:

if one more person reads this and learns just one thing then my posts have been worthwhile....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23lBBlma1Fw

Is this the fight in question? Not sure, exactly what happened in the end as it looks like its been edited. But in any case I am just happy this event took place, but I do think it would be no harm for AMAS just to hear out Diesel. Muay Thai in UK has really picked up since I left the UK 17 years ago. I think a lot of that has to do with the way they structure their fights from interclubs, to different Classes of fights A, B & C. I went to a gym this summer in the UK and even at my age they were saying if I get fit they can get me a fight. They had a guy who started training in his 50's and then a couple of years later even had a fight. So its not just for the young guns and there are shows every weekend, the way they even give a comission to fighters on tickets so they bring a large group people. They seem to have a good formula that works. Not saying that Singapore can be as big as clearly its not the size of the UK but there is a lot you can learn and it saves you having to 'reinvent the wheel', when you have someone with first hand knowledge here in Singapore.
I also would say in the gym I train in Singapore they are very positive about the changes in AMAS, so I think we should give them a chance. This was the first event for years and there's already plans for events in Oct & Nov. So in my mind this is all very positive!

exactl kalishnivov ...there are PLENTY of white collar guys here who would fancy having a crack - but there is little advertising or even a structure.. white collar boxing events here are sold out - tables etc with drinks at hotel conference rooms... you could EASILY do the same - they have no politics or organisational favourites are just run as a business - they talk to the people involved (rugby clubs, offices, gyms) and work together. They have NO pro fighters , mostly 1st or 2nd timers and it makes money too - so the idea that there isnt a market here for some fight sports is not true...

baby steps first though... SMU was a good start if we use that as Day 1.... however get it right early on with clearly established and correct rules, make it safe, make it muay thai - and I am confident there could be 6 shows a years easily.... make 3 novice ones and 3 PRO and AM only...... the guys who do the WCB have asked me to fight (and also if I had fighters) on there shows - I cant as no opponents here in SG but there is no reason why it couldnt happen - drop the egos - work together and do it right and a small but regular scene could happily plod along - MMA type gyms are getting more popular and there were lots of SMU novice fights - they are the grass roots..... keep them keen and interested and you have a scene...

play politics and change the rules etc then it isnt muay thai and you dont have a clear progression through the ranks - you go to thailand and then realise you havent done muay thai and dont know how its scored etc and come back unhappy....

get interclubs going..... no win no lose 'controlled' sparring ......

its something I will be looking to do in a few months.... thai scoring, 16oz gloves and shinpads - spar but vs another gyms guy or girl around the same weight, no headhunting or intentional KO's just a chance to use muay thai scoring - if one is clearly better or stronger he is told to control more and use technique with less power...win win for everyone..... do a few of these before you step up to fighting at SMU...... or use SMU event for say the first 2 hours as Interclub.... then real fights after....

age is nothing ....one of our girls didnt really start fighting until she was in her 40s and recently won a WMC World title in her mid 40s....

side track abit, someone should really really update the gym section..it is so outdated.